Matt Bastin liked sales but couldn’t stand selling insurance in Ireland, so he moved to Canada for a tech job and made a game of catching the office’s top performer. He outworked people rather than out-talenting them. He now runs an inbound team of about 30 at Clio, and when he hires he looks for the opposite of a polished candidate. He wants to see the cracks. He asks everyone the same two things in an interview: one thing you love about sales and one thing you hate. He also keeps the room relaxed on purpose, because nobody’s dying if you fumble a phone call. He likes AI for role-play and onboarding, and his new hires run close to 100 practice conversations before they ever dial a real number. But he draws a line at leaning on it too hard. It’s a tool, not a replacement for knowing how to write the email yourself. His biggest regret is not taking the career seriously until 28, and once taking a high-paying fintech job to sell something he couldn’t stand talking about.
[00:00:00] Matt Bastin: I knew I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. Stuff that I, I think, they saw in me on it was... I was never the... I was never the greatest, like, I was never the best at anything, but I worked... I outworked everyone. I would make sure I had the most dials.
[00:00:16] Matt Bastin: People get very rigid with like a script or things like that. You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. Um, that's the important part. It's like, if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time.
[00:00:32] Matt Bastin: So, that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to... It's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you're gonna... You're gonna... You've gotta be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:00:40] Matt Bastin: I started to get a much bigger buzz out of them doing better than I got out of closing deals. So, if your motivation is... If your... If your sole driver is "I want my number", leadership's not the role that you'll... That you will enjoy.
[00:00:57] Matt Bastin: If you are doing something because you want to do it, you will be successful. If you are... If you're doing something because you don't want to do this anymore, you're just not going to be very good at that either.
[00:01:06] Matt Bastin: And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn putting my number out there, being like, "If you think you can do it, like, give me a call. Pick up the phone and show it to me." So...
[00:01:14] John Karsant: That's the challenging part, too.
[00:01:16] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think that's almost become my, like, red flag. If people are too perfect and too, like... "This sounds..." you know, like, too polished. There's not enough human here. Because in an interview, I'm probably going to see you at your best. I want to see a few of the cracks.
[00:01:38] Matt Bastin: A lot of people think it's not okay to be casual in an interview, and it is. We're not... We're not doctors, we're not, like... What we do is... It's not easy, but it's simple. Like, no... You're not... Nobody's dying because you messed up a phone call, nobody's doing... Like, it's a completely learned skill, so anyone can do it.
[00:01:57] Matt Bastin: I wish I gave a shit more earlier. I think that was the... That... That's the... The key side of it. I was a late starter. I was probably like 28 before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here."
[00:02:11] Matt Bastin: I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance.
[00:02:17] John Karsant: [laughs]
[00:02:18] Matt Bastin: And it was... That... That was the most torturous job that I've... I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day. Um, so like, there's... Tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:02:38] John Karsant: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros, and on today's show, we have Matt Bastin. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:45] Matt Bastin: Thanks, John. Nice to be here.
[00:02:47] John Karsant: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn. Here we are having our first conversation. But, uh, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a, a bunch of experience. So, I wanted to get you on to talk through, uh, your experience and how you got to where you are today.
[00:03:08] John Karsant: So, take us back. Uh, this is how I like to start every, every episode, is take us back, like, how did you get your career started in, in the SDR world? Um, and walk us through some of those, those roles you had over time and how you ultimately got to where you are today.
[00:03:21] Matt Bastin: Yeah, sounds good. Um, yeah, no pre... Our first conversation recorded, no... No pressure.
[00:03:28] Matt Bastin: Um, yeah, so I got into... I guess I got into sales back in Ireland. I'd, um... I was selling insurance at home, and I was... I hated it. It... It was... It was an easy sell. Insurance is like a legal requirement, so you were going to buy it, just whether it was from me or someone else.
[00:03:45] Matt Bastin: But I, I hated it. I knew... I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. And a few friends of mine had made the move over to Canada, uh, into the tech world. Dublin at the time wasn't the tech scene it is now. Um, so I jumped on a flight strictly to get into, um, into the tech world.
[00:04:01] Matt Bastin: Um, 2016, it was a lot easier to get in then than it is now. Um, but I started off as a BDR at a company called CrowdRiff, uh, which is like a, uh, tourism software. They help destination, uh, organizations generate user-generated content.
[00:04:17] Matt Bastin: So, you go on a hike to BC and you're snapping pictures, putting it on Instagram, Destination BC can use your content in their marketing. Um, so it was a, a fun product to, to get your... My hands into.
[00:04:32] Matt Bastin: Um, from there, I mean, it was... I would say the first few months, I was... I probably didn't have the right mindset. It was very much like a, "This is a job that'll give me money to go enjoy my weekends." Uh, but I credit a lot of the mindset change that I had to one of the other BDRs at the time, a guy called Jason Pinto.
[00:04:52] Matt Bastin: He was the top performer. I saw everyone look at him, like, in awe of what he was doing. And I was like, "I... I can do that." So, he became like my... My competition, my best mate in the company. And, um, I very quickly became a top performer just by chasing him.
[00:05:00] Matt Bastin: ...then the goal was always AE, sell big ticket items, to close revenue and do all that amazing stuff. Finally got it, and then I hated it.
[00:05:15] Matt Bastin: I sat down with my AE manager and asked like, "Is this, is this what being an AE is like?"
[00:05:25] Matt Bastin: We talked about what my future would look like, and they said that, "You know, you're really good with the BDRs. Maybe take a step back and go work with them."
[00:05:35] Matt Bastin: So I found my first leadership position with a company called Cambridge Brain Sciences, and kind of haven't looked back. I've been with four companies in leadership roles. It was all outbound up until Cleo, where I am now.
[00:05:50] Matt Bastin: Now I help run, like I said, there's three managers and then one senior manager who runs the inbound department, and we manage a team of nearly 30 reps.
[00:06:03] John Karsant: It's a lot. That's a lot.
[00:06:07] Matt Bastin: It can be a lot.
[00:06:10] John Karsant: Well, take me back. You're talking about the, you were an SDR at CrowdRiff and then you got promoted to AE. Why, why did, what did leadership see in you to go that direction?
[00:06:22] Matt Bastin: So, yeah, with CrowdRiff, I was actually an AE at another place called Vidyard. We were all about to, my cohort, let's say, was about to, we were told we were about to get promoted at CrowdRiff, but pandemic hit. We were a tourism software, we were one of the first guys to go.
[00:06:40] Matt Bastin: So I made the jump over to Vidyard, which is telehealth. So even that first year, easy selling because everyone had to be on telehealth. But stuff that I think they saw in me on it was, I was never the, I was never the greatest, like, I was never the best at anything, but I outworked everyone.
[00:07:06] Matt Bastin: I would make sure I had the most dials. I made sure that my, I made sure my metrics were followed up with. And always agile. I think that was one thing. People get very rigid with like a script or things like that.
[00:07:20] Matt Bastin: You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. That's the important part. It's like if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time.
[00:07:32] Matt Bastin: You need to be able to like, okay, read the room, this part isn't working, they obviously don't care about this, I need to pick up something here. So I think the listening part and then just being the one who's willing to outwork the rest are the things that kind of helped me rise.
[00:07:50] John Karsant: And where do you think that work ethic came from? Is that something you learned on the job or is it something from the past, like a particular sport or some other experience?
[00:07:58] Matt Bastin: Um, I played a lot of rugby as a kid, and I think for, when I started out, I made teams quite easily because I was good, I didn't have to work too hard to get on it.
[00:08:12] Matt Bastin: As things got more serious and people started to work harder to get better, people started to surpass me, and I really didn't like that. So that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to, it's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you've got to, you've got to be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:08:28] John Karsant: Yeah, so you've got that a little bit of a competitive edge to you, which suits most sales people.
[00:08:33] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think it's, like, it's competitive, but it needs to be fun. I think that's the side of it. It's not like, you're never trying to pull anyone down to get on top, you just want to kind of climb up.
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[00:10:00] John Karsant: I think the joy goes a long way because it, it comes across whether it's through the phone or you're in person, depending on the role. But one of the best things when you're, when you're cold calling is, is cracking a few jokes, right? Making fun of something, or they, you know, they bring up a, something that most people might get defensive on, like, "Oh, where'd you get my number?" But you make a joke out of it, you usually get, you usually get over it and people start to open up a little bit more and actually start having a conversation and their guards start to drop. And I think that goes a long way. Uh, that's at least in my experience and the SDRs I, I watch. Those are, those are the ones that are most successful because they're getting people to drop their guard.
[00:11:09] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think that's like a golden rule I tell new reps when they join the team is like, if you're funny, be funny. If you're like, like, like, what is that like, what's that unique thing that you can bring to a call? Don't just be the monotone, "Hey, I'm calling because you're on a list and this is my pitch." Um, doesn't always have to be a joke. It doesn't, like you could just be an interesting person and get it that way.
[00:11:30] John Karsant: Yeah, be human.
[00:11:31] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think like, um, I can't remember who ran the training, but I remember training years and years ago I took on cold calling, and it was like, the golden rule is be interested and be interesting. You need to take an interest in them and you need to, you need to be a person that they want to speak to. Um, and they don't get that when you are, when you're monotone, just, "I'm calling you because we help optimize when..." like, it's, you, you need to have a bit of character behind it.
[00:11:58] John Karsant: Yeah. Yeah, those are, uh, I like that line. Be interested and interesting.
[00:12:04] John Karsant: Um, so, you said currently you're managing 30 SDRs, or team, right? There's a few SDR managers, is that right?
[00:12:11] Matt Bastin: Yeah, so we have, uh, I think right now we're probably at 28, soon to be back to 30, and then each team, we have three
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[00:15:00] John Karsant: I knew, I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling.
[00:15:03] John Karsant: Stuff that I think they saw in me on it was, I was never the, I was never the greatest, like, I was never the best at anything, but I worked, I outworked everyone. I would make sure I had the most dials.
[00:15:16] John Karsant: People get very rigid with like a script or things like that. You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. Um, that's the important part. It's like if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time.
[00:15:32] John Karsant: So, that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to, it's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:15:40] John Karsant: I started to get a much bigger buzz out of them doing better than I got out of closing deals.
[00:15:47] John Karsant: So, if your motivation is, if your sole driver is "I want my number," leadership's not the role that you'll, that you will enjoy.
[00:15:57] John Karsant: If you are doing something because you want to do it, you will be successful. If you are doing something because you don't want to do this anymore, you're just not going to be very good at that either.
[00:16:06] John Karsant: And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn putting my number out there, being like, if you think you can do it, like, give me a call, pick up the phone and show it to me. So...
[00:16:14] Matt Bastin: That's the challenging part, too.
[00:16:16] John Karsant: Yeah, I think that's almost become my like red flag. If people are too perfect and too like, "this sounds, you know, like, too polished, there's not enough human here," because in an interview, I'm probably going to see you at your best. I want to see a few of the cracks.
[00:16:38] John Karsant: A lot of people think it's not okay to be casual in an interview, and it is. We're not, we're not doctors, we're not like, what we do is, it's not easy, but it's simple. Like, nobody's dying because you mess up a phone call, nobody's... like, it's a completely learned skill, so anyone can do it.
[00:16:57] John Karsant: I wish I gave a shit more earlier. I think that was the, that, that's the key side of it. I was a late starter. I was probably like 28 before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here."
[00:17:11] John Karsant: I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance. And it was, that, that was the most torturous job that I've, I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day.
[00:17:27] John Karsant: Um, so like, there's, tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:17:38] Matt Bastin: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros and on today's show we have Matt Bastin. Welcome to the show.
[00:17:45] John Karsant: Thanks John, nice to be here.
[00:17:47] Matt Bastin: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn, here we are having our first conversation, but, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a bunch of experience, so I wanted to get you on to talk through your experience and how you got to where you are today.
[00:18:08] Matt Bastin: So, take us back, this is how I like to start every episode, take us back like how did you get your career started in the SDR world, and walk us through some of those roles you had over time and how you ultimately got to where you are today.
[00:18:21] John Karsant: Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, no pressure, our first conversation recorded, no pressure.
[00:18:27] Matt Bastin: (laughs)
[00:18:28] John Karsant: Yeah, so I got into, I guess I got into sales back in Ireland, I was selling insurance at home, and I was, I hated it.
[00:18:37] John Karsant: It was an easy sell, insurance is like a legal requirement, so you are going to buy it, just whether it was from me or someone else.
[Warning: Gemini stopped because this chunk reached the max token limit. This segment may be incomplete.]
[00:20:00] Matt Bastin: ...before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here." I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance.
[00:20:17] And it was... that was the most torturous job that I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day. So like, tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:20:38] John Karsant: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros, and on today's show we have Matt Baston. Welcome to the show.
[00:20:45] Matt Bastin: Thanks, John. Nice to be here.
[00:20:47] John Karsant: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn. Here we are having our first conversation, but, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this...
[00:21:14] ...podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a bunch of experience. So I wanted to get you on to talk through...
[00:21:40] ...your experience and how you got to where you are today. So, take us back. This is how I like to start every episode, is take us back, like, how did you get your career started...
[00:22:00] ...in the SDR world? And walk us through some of those roles you had over time and how you ultimately got to where you are today.
[00:22:30] Matt Bastin: Yeah, sounds good. Um, yeah, no pressure, our first conversation recorded. No pressure.
[00:23:00] Yeah, so I got into... I guess I got into sales back in Ireland. I was selling insurance at home, and I was... I hated it. It was an easy sell. Insurance is like a...
[00:23:15] ...legal requirement, so you are going to buy it, just whether it was from me or someone else. But I hated it. I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. And a few friends of mine had made the move over to Canada...
[00:23:28] ...into the tech world. Dublin at the time wasn't the tech scene it is now. So I jumped on a flight strictly to get into... into the tech world.
[00:23:45] 2016, it was a lot easier to get in then than it is now. But I started off as a BDR at a company called CrowdRiff, which is like a tourism software. They help destination organizations...
[00:24:02] ...generate user-generated content. So you go on a hike to BC and you're snapping pictures, putting it on Instagram, Destination BC can use your content in their marketing.
[00:24:16] So it was a fun product to get my hands into. From there, I mean, I would say the first few months I was... probably didn't have the right mindset. It was very much like, "This is a job that will give me money to go enjoy my weekends."
[00:24:33] But I credit a lot of the mindset change that I had to one of the other BDRs at the time, a guy called Jason Pinto.
[00:24:45] He was the top performer. I saw everyone look at him in awe of what he was doing. I was like, "I can do that." So he became my competition, my best mate in the company, and I very quickly became a top performer just by chasing him.
[Warning: Gemini stopped because this chunk reached the max token limit. This segment may be incomplete.]
[00:25:00] Matt Bastin: I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. Stuff that I think they saw in me on it was... I was never the greatest... I was never the best at anything, but I outworked everyone.
[00:25:15] Matt Bastin: I would make sure I had the most dials. People get very rigid with like a script or things like that. You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. That's the important part.
[00:25:30] Matt Bastin: It's like if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time. So, that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to... it's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you gotta be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:25:45] Matt Bastin: I started to get a much bigger buzz out of them doing better than I got out of closing deals. So, if your motivation is... if your sole driver is "I want my number," leadership's not the role that you'll enjoy.
[00:26:00] Matt Bastin: If you are doing something because you want to do it, you will be successful. If you are doing something because you don't want to do this anymore, you're just not going to be very good at that either. And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn putting my number out there, being like, "If you think you can do it, like, give me a call. Pick up the phone and show it to me." So...
[00:26:14] John Karsant: That's the challenging part, too.
[00:26:16] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think that's almost become my like red flag. If people are too perfect and too like, "This sounds, you know, like too polished. There's not enough human here." Because in an interview, I'm probably going to see you at your best.
[00:26:30] Matt Bastin: I want to see a few of the cracks. A lot of people think it's not okay to be casual in an interview, and it is. We're not... we're not doctors, we're not like... what we do is... it's not easy, but it's simple.
[00:26:45] Matt Bastin: Like, nobody's dying because you messed up a phone call. It's a completely learned skill, so anyone can do it.
[00:26:57] Matt Bastin: I wish I gave a shit more earlier. I think that was the... that's the key side of it. I was a late starter. I was probably like 28 before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here."
[00:27:12] Matt Bastin: I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance. And it was... that was the most torturous job that I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day.
[00:27:27] Matt Bastin: So like, tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:27:37] John Karsant: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros, and on today's show we have Matt Baston. Welcome to the show.
[00:27:45] Matt Bastin: Thanks, John. Nice to be here.
[00:27:47] John Karsant: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn. Here we are having our first conversation, but, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a bunch of experience, so I wanted to get you on to talk through your experience and how you got to where you are today.
[00:28:05] John Karsant: So, take us back. This is how I like to start every episode, is take us back like, how did you get your career started in the SDR world, and walk us through some of those roles you had over time and how you ultimately got to where you are today?
[00:28:21] Matt Bastin: Yeah, sounds good. Um, yeah, no pressure, our first conversation recorded, no pressure.
[00:28:28] John Karsant: [Laughter]
[00:28:29] Matt Bastin: Yeah, so I got into... I guess I got into sales back in Ireland. I was selling insurance at home, and I was... I hated it. It was an easy sell. Insurance is like a legal requirement, so you were going to buy it, just whether it was from me or someone else.
[00:28:45] Matt Bastin: But I hated it. I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. And a few friends of mine had made the move over to Canada into the tech world. Dublin at the time wasn't the tech scene it is now.
[00:29:00] Matt Bastin: So, I jumped on a flight strictly to get into the tech world. In 2016, it was a lot easier to get in then than it is now. But I started off as a BDR at a company called CrowdRiff, which is like a tourism software.
[00:29:15] Matt Bastin: They help destination organizations generate user-generated content. So, you go on a hike to BC and you're snapping pictures, putting it on Instagram, Destination BC can use your content in their marketing.
[00:29:30] Matt Bastin: So, it was a fun product to get my hands into. From there, I mean, I would say the first few months, I probably didn't have the right mindset. It was very much like, "This is a job that will give me money to go enjoy my weekends."
[00:29:45] Matt Bastin: But I credit a lot of the mindset change that I had to one of the other BDRs at the time, a guy called Jason Pinto. He was the top performer. I saw everyone look at him in awe of what he was doing, and I was like, "I can do that." So, he became my competition, my best mate in the company, and I very quickly became a top performer just by chasing him.
[Warning: Gemini stopped because this chunk reached the max token limit. This segment may be incomplete.]
[00:30:00] John Karsant: I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. Stuff that I think they saw in me on it was, I was never the... I was never the greatest, like, I was never the best at anything, but I worked... I outworked everyone.
[00:30:15] John Karsant: I would make sure I had the most dials. People get very rigid with like a script or things like that. You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. Um, that's the important part. It's like, if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time.
[00:30:32] John Karsant: So, that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to... It's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you gotta... You gotta... You gotta be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:30:40] John Karsant: I started to get a much bigger buzz out of them doing better than I got out of closing deals. So, if your motivation is... If your... If your sole driver is "I want my number," leadership's not the role that you'll... That you will enjoy.
[00:30:55] John Karsant: If you are doing something because you want to do it, you will be successful. If you are... If you're doing something because you don't want to do this anymore, you're just not going to be very good at that either.
[00:31:06] John Karsant: And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn putting my number out there, being like, "If you think you can do it, like, give me a call. Pick up the phone and show it to me." So...
[00:31:14] Matt Bastin: That's the challenging part, too.
[00:31:16] John Karsant: Yeah, I think that's almost become my, like, red flag. If people are too perfect and too, like, "This sounds, you know, like, too... too polished." There's not enough human here, because in an interview, I'm probably going to see you at your best.
[00:31:32] John Karsant: I want to see a few of the cracks. A lot of people think it's not okay to be casual in an interview, and it is. We're not... We're not doctors, we're not, like...
[00:31:45] John Karsant: What we do is... It's not easy, but it's simple. Like, nobody's dying because you mess up a phone call, nobody's... Like, it's a completely learned skill, so anyone can do it.
[00:31:57] John Karsant: I wish I gave a shit more earlier. I think that was the... That... That's the... The key side of it. I was a late starter. I was probably like 28 before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here."
[00:32:11] John Karsant: I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance. And it was... That... That was the most torturous job that I've... That I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day.
[00:32:28] John Karsant: So, like, tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:32:38] Matt Bastin: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros, and on today's show we have Matt Bastin. Welcome to the show.
[00:32:45] John Karsant: Thanks, John. Nice to be here.
[00:32:47] Matt Bastin: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn. Here we are having our first conversation, but, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a bunch of experience, so I wanted to get you on to talk through your experience and how you got to where you are today.
[00:33:05] Matt Bastin: So, take us back. This is how I like to start every episode. Take us back, like, how did you get your career started in the SDR world, and walk us through some of those roles you had over time and how you ultimately got to where you are today.
[00:33:21] John Karsant: Yeah, sounds good. Um, yeah, no pressure, our first conversation recorded, no pressure.
[00:33:29] John Karsant: Yeah, so I got into... I guess I got into sales back in Ireland. I was selling insurance at home, and I was... I hated it. It was... It was an easy sell. Insurance is like a legal requirement, so you are going to buy it, just whether it was from me or someone else.
[00:33:45] John Karsant: But I hated it. I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. And a few friends of mine had made the move over to Canada into the tech world. Dublin at the time wasn't the tech scene it is now.
[00:33:57] John Karsant: Um, so I jumped on a flight strictly to get into... Into the tech world. 2016, it was a lot easier to get in then than it is now.
[00:34:08] John Karsant: Um, but I started off as a BDR at a company called CrowdRiff, which is like a tourism software. They help destination organizations generate user-generated content.
[00:34:18] John Karsant: So, you go on a hike to BC and you're snapping pictures, putting it on Instagram, Destination BC can use your content in their marketing. Um, so it was a fun product to get my hands into.
[00:34:33] John Karsant: From there, I mean, it was... I would say the first few months, I was... I probably didn't have the right mindset. It was very much like, "This is a job that will give me money to go enjoy my weekends."
[00:34:45] John Karsant: Uh, but I credit a lot of the mindset change that I had to one of the other BDRs at the time, a guy called Jason Pinto. He was the top performer. I saw everyone look at him, like, in awe of what he was doing, and I was like, "I can do that."
[00:34:59] John Karsant: So, he became like my competition, my best mate in the company, and, um, I very quickly became a top performer just by chasing him.
[00:35:00] Matt Bastin: I knew I liked sales, but I hated what I was selling. Stuff that I think they saw in me on it was I was never the... I was never the greatest, like, I was never the best at anything, but I worked... I outworked everyone. I would make sure I had the most dials.
[00:35:16] Matt Bastin: People get very rigid with like a script or things like that. You need to be able to speak to the person in front of you. Um, that's the important part. It's like if you, like, it's not that you need to change it every time because that doesn't work, but you need to be able to adapt it every time.
[00:35:32] Matt Bastin: So, that kind of taught me, hey, if you want to... It's easy to get to the top, but if you want to stay at the top, you gotta... You gotta be the hardest worker in the room.
[00:35:40] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I started to get a much bigger buzz out of them doing better than I got out of closing deals. So, if your motivation is... If your sole driver is "I want my number," leadership's not the role that you'll... That you will enjoy.
[00:35:57] Matt Bastin: If you are doing something because you want to do it, you will be successful. If you are... If you're doing something because you don't want to do this anymore, you're just not going to be very good at that either. And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn putting my number out there, being like, "If you think you can do it, like, give me a call. Pick up the phone and show it to me." So...
[00:36:14] John Karsant: That's the challenging part, too.
[00:36:16] Matt Bastin: Yeah, I think that's almost become my, like, red flag. If people are too perfect and too, like, "This sounds, you know, like, too polished. There's not enough human here." Because in an interview, I'm probably going to see you at your best. I want to see a few of the cracks.
[00:36:38] Matt Bastin: A lot of people think it's not okay to be casual in an interview, and it is. We're not... We're not doctors, we're not, like... What we do is... It's not easy, but it's simple. Like, nobody's dying because you messed up a phone call, nobody's... Like, it's a completely learned skill, so anyone can do it.
[00:36:57] Matt Bastin: I wish I gave a shit more earlier. I think that was the... That's the key side of it. I was a late starter. I was probably like 28 before I started going, "Okay, I can do something here."
[00:37:11] Matt Bastin: I went to a fintech company because the paycheck was really big, and then I realized I hate talking finance. And it was... That was the most torturous job that I've... That I've ever had. Best paid, but I hated every single day. So, like, tech is broken up into a million different subcategories. Pick a category that you do not mind talking about, because that's going to be your job.
[00:37:37] John Karsant: Welcome back to Prospecting Pros, and on today's show we have Matt Baston. Welcome to the show.
[00:37:45] Matt Bastin: Thanks, John. Nice to be here.
[00:37:47] John Karsant: Yeah, thanks for connecting, originally on LinkedIn. Here we are having our first conversation, but, you know, a lot of things we discuss on this podcast is about SDRs, lead generation, management, and you have a bunch of experience, so I wanted to get you on to talk through your experience and how you got to where you are today. So, take us back...
